The Show : Episodes : Diversity in Q-life show : does it exist? is it necessary, does anyone give a shit?

cutie_tech123: April 23, 2008 - 07:56 PM PST Libetarians are closed minded. They do not listen to other opinions. They just leave to the air. Most of the Libetarians are not result driven. They will just wait what will happen next and find solutions after the incident. They do no think what will happen in the future.
_________________________

cutie_tech123
Put The Message Where It Matters! WideCircles aka Wide Circles represents relevant, distributed, highly targeted and efficient internet word of mouth marketing using entertaining or informative messages that are designed to be passed along in an exponential fashion using social network mediums such as blogs, forums, wikis and so on.
<a href="http://widecircles.com/">http://widecircles.com>

watchtan: December 15, 2007 - 12:47 AM PST so we are casting based on a US census?
I am a 26 y/o and i have a group of friends (btw it's more than 6 people) and most are white, sum are skinny, sum are rich, sum are married, sum are alcoholics, sum are college grads, sum are in their 30, etc. That is my reality.
This is an effing TV show, not reality. White skinny and pretty is boooooring. throw in sum GD variety.

thoreaubred: November 22, 2007 - 10:15 AM PST
Well, in that case, I would look at their past work in which they were able to get more out of the 44-minute episodic format than any other show I've ever seen, even while they were on TV, and have faith that they're going to continue to do that. But, a pilot is a pilot. In art, there are certain areas where artists stick to a certain form not because some CEO is imposing formula on them from above, but because it's tradition. There are certain things a pilot has to do, certain promises it has to make about what the show is going to be about, and it has to do that within 44 minutes, and so most pilots follow a rough formula that is more about the tradition of the pilot as a form than about shackles. But if you look at Once and Again, the ignored-but-brilliant previous show by these guys, the pilot was a pretty straightforward pilot, but all the episodes after that were probably the least formulaic episodes of any show that have ever made it onto network television. So this is another area where H & Z have nothing to prove.


Come on, give me some credit. I've already offered my rebuttal here, and it wasn't "OH, well now who's racist." It went a little deeper than that. Don't anticipate me pulling some dumb card in response to something I've already responded to.


It's not about whether they need to do it, it's about whether it's legitimate for them to do it. As long as groups of friends that are all or mostly of the same race exist in real life, it's legitimate to portray such groups, even if it isn't needed.


Just so we're clear, when I brought up Big Love I wasn't makig a point about places where there are no minorities, I was making a point about a show having an all-white cast and still being interesting and relevant. Big Love's reason for having an all white cast is because it takes place in an all-white place, but that is not the only legitimate reason for such a cast. So the geographical setting of the two shows was not the aspect I was comparing. That said, again you're making arguments that have already been precluded by other people's arguments. Nobody is saying that Chicago doesn't have minorities, what people are saying is that within a city like Chicago there are still groups of friends who are all or mostly of the same race (and it's not just white people saying this. White people aren't the only race of which you'll find entire groups of friends in real life. We all know taht there are black groups of friends, asian groups of friends, and so on. If you don't know this, maybe you need to get out of Culver City and see what the rest of the country is like). The show doesn't have a million characters, so obviously it's not a portrayal of Chicago as a city. It has six characters and is a portrayal of a particular group of friends.



As far as this goes, I don't work in television so I don't know how accurate this is that network execs actually have the nerve to say that minority characters don't play well. But it strikes me as a straw man argument because there are minority main characters on TV. Maybe there haven't always been, but there are these days. I don't watch loads of TV, but when I do watch it I see minority main characters in very popular shows like Grey's Anatomy for example. Actually, here's something ironic for you: Grey's Anatomy has an unrealistic number of black main characters for a show that takes place in Seattle. But anyway, even when we get bogged down in details like this, the fact that a show ought to be allowed to follow its own internal logic has already been stated.

Lladnek: November 21, 2007 - 10:38 PM PST Please, can we not make this a cliche discussion about race by bringing up OJ. He's not representative of anyone besides spoiled rich celebrities. Moving on


Ok, maybe I need to give a bit of context on the comment. Before I watched the show, I read Mr. Herskowitz's Article in the LA Times, I was under the impression that the show was going a different direction because it was on the internet, more energy, maybe a different pace. Finally free of the creative shackles of television they could explore new options for storytelling on the vast frontier that is the internet. That was the impression I got, until I watched the show.

Now, if I could explain "Pretty White Kids with Problems" its an old gag from a sketch show, it was spoofing 90210. And honestly, the fact that the cast is all white does make it less interesting. Don't go pulling that "OH, well now who's racist" card, I'm willing to bet that both Chicago and Culver City are more diverse then most would think. It's not like there is some social group they need to accurately portray (Big Love). If its a city population or even a group of friends in their mid 20's there is a lack of diversity. Yes I'm sure there is change coming, but I wonder why it started out this way. Hence my original question if this show was pitched for a network before it went the internet root.

And no one is asking for forced diversity. Yes there are places where there are no minorities. But last time I checked those places weren't CHICAGO or CULVER CITY. Often times in fact, in various environments they have portrayed there is usually one or two people of color surrounded by white people. The stories usually only have supporting roles for minorities, and the reason often given by the network execs being villified currently, is that they won't sell well, or it won't play well, This is why there aren't many Minority Main Characters on Television. So its just disconcerting to see the same thing on internet television which is supposed to be the next wave. It's like the strike. They don't want the same crap deal they got when VHS was on the rise.

Hope everyone has a Happy Thanksgiving.

Please stop talking about OJ. seriously...

Grigori: November 21, 2007 - 05:06 PM PST ahem did you say furhman, or simi valley jury? case closed?

Carlos: November 21, 2007 - 02:13 PM PST

Two letters for you. OJ

thoreaubred: November 21, 2007 - 01:10 PM PST
I apologize if I misunderstood. Based on the topic of the discussion I interpreted your comments to mean that it was the lack of racial diversity that makes it "so much like a TV show", rather than just a general comment on it not taking advantage of the different form offered by the internet. As far as that goes, though, I disagree on the same grounds as I disagree with the complaints about the racial makeup of the cast, that it's up to the artist to write what he knows. Just because a different form is possible doesn't make it necessary. Maybe the producers just like the format of episodic television and that's what they enjoy creating.

Back to the race issue though, you do go on to talk about "Pretty White Kids With Problems", so your comments aren't completely disconnected from the subject being discussed, right? You consider "pretty white kids with problems" to be formulaic? As opposed to what, ugly black kids with no problems? Or pretty black kids with no problems? Or ugly white kids with problems? Or ugly white kids with no problems? Do you object to the prettiness, the whiteness, the problems, or just certain combinations of those things? Are white kids not allowed to have problems? Are pretty white kids not allowed to have problems? Are they too white and pretty for that? The thing that continues to baffle me about this discussion is that people continue to demand racial diversity even though the rebuttal to that demand has already been provided. And yes, MRobeson, it is being demanded, by the very fact that the lack of it is being treated as a problem. The rebuttal has already been made repeatedly: that there are social circles in real life that are all or mostly of the same race, and that therefore it is not unrealistic for a writer to portray such a circle. And yet, no matter how many times that simple point is made, people continue to ignore it and express their disappointment the cast is not more racially diverse.

Would it? It seems like it wouldn't based on your own later comments:

I agree with this statement, but I also think it directly negates the idea that having a racially diverse cast for the sake of a racially diverse cast would make the show more interesting. Besides, several people have already responded to the question of whether it would make the show more interesting, and the answer is no. People find well written characters interesting, regardless of their race, and this has been said by people of at least a few different races so far. Take a show like Big Love. I don't know if you've seen it, but it's a really good show, really well-written and acted about really interesting characters. It also happens to be about Mormons in Utah, and everyone on it is white. (And the fact is, such places exist in real life, so why should they not be represented? Isn't it counter-productive to start censoring out actual parts of real life just because some people are apparently offended by seeing those parts?) Does the fact that the cast happens to be white make it less unique and interesting? I don't think so. I also think it's interesting that it's created by two gay guys, who wanted to explore themes about family and marriage in America, and instead of just making a straight up show about the issue of gay marriage, they chose to go the metaphorical route and put themselves in the shoes of people from a very different walk of life than their own. Now, what if someone ignorant of who created the show were disappointed that there are no gay people in the show? They would be missing the point of the show and the way it metaphorically deals with issues that are important to gay people in America. The show is about people in a specific situation, and it explores larger themes through that lens. So art isn't as simple as making sure you have a diverse cast for its own sake. Instead of people demanding that any given show represent everything in life that ought to be represented, people should let each show represent what it represents, and if you think something isn't being represented, wonder why there isn't a show about it, not why it hasn't been squeezed into an existing show.

jacy: November 21, 2007 - 07:56 AM PST Lladnek...Diversity is great if it makes sense and moves the story foward. It is totally a non- issue for me. Just give it time and let the story unfold naturally. Life has a lot to do with choices. The creators have choices and so do viewers. Many of your suggestions sound great, why not take on the role of creator Networks are hot for online content,UTA-online searches the net daily looking for new shows and talent, Sunny Holt and Veoh are getting better everyday at promoting online content, and tubemogul provides free uploading of your vids to all major sites and provide tracking in the form of daily (I think) graphs. Everything is available to you...you could actually do it your way and be successful.

Lladnek: November 21, 2007 - 02:26 AM PST

I'm not sure how you got that from what I said . Basically my question was if this was intended as a television series first, and then it became an internet show second. I was just asking that question because I think the show was pitched to me differently. Also Because some of it seemed a bit too televisiony to me, thats not even specifically about the diversity in the show. I'm just echoing what MRobeson said before me, it seems a bit formulaic to me. And its made for the internet, so this means you don't have to follow the same conventions that you would for television. Breakout, make it more film-like, write the story in a different format then for television.

And I'm not trying to sound unappreciative or disrespectful to what has been created, but I've honestly seen this show before; "Pretty White Kids With Problems." I do enjoy television, but the world doesn't look like my television. I don't know why its such an offense to want it to look like it, or better resemble it. Or why I should wait for it to look like it. There can't be a shortage of talented actors, not in this city. So that can't be the reason. Honestly though, there are worse offenders and to some degree I think part of the reason this discussion is going on here is because this is one of the only outlets provided. But all the same, I would enjoy this show more if it did resemble the town I'm used to seeing.

Also, I was wondering whats going to happen with the show, I was unclear so I was trying to reserve judgement while this experiment continues.

(If any creators or powers that be are reading this, please don't put anymore blog entries for the characters in yellow on white, it hurts the eyes and is generally harder to read.)

MRobeson: November 21, 2007 - 12:01 AM PST Grigori -- Thanks for bringing me in to this discussion.

Here's what I wrote earlier this evening:
Finally caught the first few episodes over at Myspace and I have a question. Is this set in Los Angeles, California? From what I've seen it leads me to believe the answer is no. Where are the Latinos, Asians and Blacks? Seems "Quarterlife" is an appropriate title, though, as the characters depicted here represent a group that only makes up about 1/4 of L.A.'s population: white people. One more maudlin indie rock song, "artsy" character styled to appear to be without make up while she flips her messy hair or slouchy white guy in an Xtra-small T-shirt and I think I'm going to call the Silverlake Chamber of Commerce and complain about them agreeing to go along with this. Haven't we seen this all before?

My newest comments:
"Demanding" diversity? A comment about a lack of diversity is not a demand for it. It's more of a disappointment that even though Qlife is groundbreaking in its delivery model, the same small group of creatives that have been in the TV game for at least two decades didn't come up with something fresher. Ed Zwick has worked with Denzel Washington on many occasions, surely he knows a black, Latino or Asian writer...or two.

We've seen Los Angeles from the POV of these types of characters. Why not embrace the ethnic diversity of this fabulous city so it can be seen from all angles? You don't HAVE to, but wouldn't it make it all the more UNIQUE and INTERESTING?

The comment about the show writer's potential inability to be "relate" to non-white characters shows that person's lack of understanding of what a writer's job is. One must write what one knows and a writer's job is to know more than the average person. To know a wider variety of people than the average person. To understand the wants and needs of those people he/she has nothing in common with...oh, except for the fact that we're all human beings with mostly superficial differences. All of the personality types are equally distributed throughout the ethnic groups in America. You can change the race of any of Qlife's characters without making any additional adjustments and no one from said ethnic group would complain about a lack of authenticity.

thoreaubred: November 20, 2007 - 09:55 PM PST
So wait, it "seems like a television show" because there aren't enough non-whites in it yet? Whereas internet content is all about non-whites? Could you clarify?

Lladnek: November 20, 2007 - 03:06 PM PST So I'm a bit unclear about this, after mini episode #10+ there will be main characters of color? After a few hours the characters will change and this won't be a concern? Thanks I guess. I'm just not understanding why this seems like such a television show even though its made for the internet, is it because it started out for television?

Dreamnasium: November 18, 2007 - 09:09 PM PST

Yeah. Sorry. That is wrong again. You have to stop ASSUMING that every "minority" depiction is done strictly to serve "diversity."

When you show slices of apparently real life, people are going to notice if what is presented doesn't line up with real life. When you live in a society that enjoys a "mainstream" mythology that has been traditionally and generationally composed of whites, it follows that the other stories of the other mainstreams will be ignored in favor of the larger party line. Unsurprisingly, that is precisely what has happened.

Latins, Asians, and, oh dear God, blacks, have been fighting a brutal uphill battle to get that mainstream to see them as people rather than cardboard cutouts in the background of white peoples' lives since, well, ever. Sure they yell about it. Sure they're in your face about it. Of course they are. They shouldn't have to fight for something like that, being people and all.

The big secret is that American life is now and has always been "diverse."

Sick of it? Get used to it. It's Life.

Although, again, these particular creators have proven themselves on that score for a couple decades now so, you know, maybe let them tell their story the way they want.

thoreaubred: November 18, 2007 - 03:09 PM PST Wait a second, animal liberation is PC now? Did I fall asleep and wake up in the year 2589?

SummatSixy: November 18, 2007 - 02:59 PM PST I am so sick & tired of DIVERSITY! Yes, it is a diverse world that we live in, but this is a slice of life. Tyler Perry just did a movie about married couples, with not one whit face in the bunch. I don't recall DIVERSITY being raised there. Give us all a break. If an African Amerian crosses their path, it should be in a natural way, not just for the sake of "diversity" & "viewership deomographics". I am enjoying this slice of the lives of the characters I have seen so far. Let's leave the PC stuff for PETA, NOW, and any other people for whom it matters!

thoreaubred: November 16, 2007 - 06:29 PM PST Yeah, you told us all. And Mr. H also defended his right for his shows to follow their own internal logic, which is what we were all arguing in favor of as well. Everyone wins. The show will have diversity, but not at gunpoint.

Grigori: November 16, 2007 - 06:23 PM PST

Ok. see you guys. I told ya'll. All your comments and thoughts were very revealing and insightful. Thanks for the exchange it was and will continue to be a "hot button" topic.

mshersk: November 16, 2007 - 07:25 AM PST Dear All-- I had replied to Grigori privately on this matter. The show will be much more ethnically diverse by the third and fourth hour. Both Zwick and I -- having made movies like Glory, Blood Diamond, and Traffic -- feel we have nothing to prove in this area, and that our projects should be allowed to organically follow their own internal logic with regard to "diversity". As it happens, that internal logic has always been to keep the architecture of the show "open", which is to say that characters will come and go. By the fourth hour, two of these main characters will be gone, and three new ones will have emerged, with a different ethnic and cultural mix.
Please hang in and keep watching. You ain't seen nothin' yet!
Marshall

SmD71nG: November 16, 2007 - 06:50 AM PST

I stand corrected, but I was merely pointing out how some create an issue when there is no issue to begin with. I mean, grigori is calling this ethnic cleansing, I am sure that was not what the creators had in mind when they created the show.

pilgrimOmega: November 16, 2007 - 03:57 AM PST Oh, and even using the term Ethnic Cleansing is just a horrific overstatement, and as offensive as anything I've read here yet.

pilgrimOmega: November 16, 2007 - 03:52 AM PST ql sucks ass so far?

Dude.

Why waste your time and breath then? You are obviously talented. Make your own show. I'll watch it. I'll join your community and I will support you. However, I will never demand that you include a token whitey on your show. Why? Oh yeah. It's YOUR show. You make whatever choices you want. However, if I feel a show about a bunch of black people doesn't speak to me, and I don't get the issues because I CAN'T, being white...and then I stop watching...does that make me racist? I just don't get the rules on all this shit. I just see people. I don't really think about race until someone else starts talking about it. This thread...man. It's ugly on so many levels. The worst part, a lot of the people in it are on my friends list here. PS: SPECIAL PROPS FOR THE SPECIAL BULLETIN MENTION! I was 14 when that aired and it changed my life.

thoreaubred: November 16, 2007 - 02:08 AM PST
You're speaking about what from that experience? You're speaking about Quarterlife, right? So, did you audition for Quarterlife, and were turned down for being black?

Are you dense, or disingenuous? The point about me being introverted isn't that it prevents me from speaking to people of other races, it's that I have a smaller number of people that I know than I would if I were extraverted. Smaller number=less opportunity for diversity. If I live somewhere where one in ten people in black, but I only have a couple of close friends and handful of acquaintaces, I'm less likely to have black friends than if I have twenty close friends and a hundred acquaintances. So, the have been long periods of my life where it happened that one of my few close friends was black. This happens to be a period in which that isn't so. But of coure you ignore the periods in which my best friend was black, and to you I'm a white guy who must be from a small town who refuses to talk to people who aren't white. P.S., neither Seattle nor Vancouver are small towns.

Grigori: November 16, 2007 - 02:02 AM PST it must be nice to feel superior and have all the answers. How is expressing an opinion "rubbing it in your face". Jesus Christ (what race is he?) nevermind. ql sucks ass so far, very boring, but again the shows creator has promised no more "ethnic cleansing", changes are coming...

Grigori: November 16, 2007 - 01:58 AM PST

Are any one of you "working actors"? Well I am actually making a living in Hollywood. I'm speaking from that experience. Not just some 1/2 cocked guy in some small town. That's too introverted to speak to those that aren't the same skin color.